c/p
By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer Fri May 9, 1:18 AM ET
NEW YORK - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Thursday that Republican John McCain was "losing his bearings" for repeatedly suggesting the Islamic terrorist group Hamas preferred Obama for president.

That brought an angry response from McCain's campaign, which accused Obama of trying to make an issue of McCain's age.
Age is a touchy subject for McCain, who turns 72 in August and would be the oldest person to be sworn in as president if elected.
The two senators have focused more intently on one another in recent weeks as Obama has moved closer to becoming the Democratic nominee. Thursday's back and forth between Obama and surrogates for both candidates foreshadowed a likely argument for the fall campaign.
The sparring also comes the same week as Obama's decisive victory in North Carolina's primary, which brought renewed calls for Hillary Rodham Clinton to get out of the race and clear a path for him to claim the Democratic nomination and focus on McCain.
At the root of the dispute is McCain's decision to call attention to a Hamas adviser's apparent affinity for Obama. The adviser, Ahmed Yousef, said in a recent interview: "We like Obama and hope that he will win the election."
McCain used those comments in a fundraising appeal and has cited them in interviews.
Asked about the matter Wednesday during a taping of "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," McCain said: "It's indicative of how some of our enemies view America. And I guarantee you, they're not going to endorse me."
In an interview Thursday with CNN, Obama accused McCain of trying to smear him by repeating the comments.
"This is offensive, and I think it's disappointing, because John McCain always says, 'Well, I'm not going to run that kind of politics,'" Obama said. "And then to engage in that kind of smear, I think, is unfortunate, particularly since my policy toward Hamas has been no different than his."
The Illinois senator added: "For him to toss out comments like that, I think, is an example of him losing his bearings as he pursues this nomination. We don't need name-calling in this debate."
Like McCain, Obama criticized former President Carter for recently meeting with Hamas leaders, saying the U.S. must not negotiate with a terrorist group that is intent on Israel's destruction. McCain had called on Obama to repudiate Carter's meeting.
McCain's campaign issued an angry response that accused Obama of trying to divert attention from a legitimate question by raising McCain's age.
"He used the words 'losing his bearings' intentionally, a not-particularly-clever way of raising John McCain's age as an issue," McCain adviser Mark Salter said. "It is more than fair to raise this quote about Senator Obama, because it speaks to the policy implications of his judgment."
Obama spokesman Bill Burton insisted that Obama was not trying to do what McCain's campaign accused him of.
"Clearly, losing one's bearings has no relation to age," he said.
Thus far, Democrats have been careful not to mention McCain's age, at least not directly. The lone exception is Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a supporter of Hillary Rodham Clinton who a few weeks ago said the rigors of running the country is too much for guys their age.
"Let me tell you something, it's no old man's job," Murtha, 75, told a union audience.
In response, McCain told CNN: "All I can tell you is that I admire and respect Jack Murtha. Speak for yourself, Jack. I'm doing fine. Thanks."


yea, obama want him to shut up and STOP REMINDING people that he has TIES with and is SUPPORTED by TERRORIST...but this is only going to bring it more out in the open where it BELONGS!!! quiet a piece of work this obama is.

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Unless Obama sought out this guys endorsement like McCain did this Hagee character. How does this prove anything?

yea, obama want him to shut up and STOP REMINDING people that he has TIES with and is SUPPORTED by TERRORIST...but this is only going to bring it more out in the open where it BELONGS!!! quiet a piece of work this obama is.TIES??? Are you losing your bearings goldmine? McCain is the one with known and proven ties to an Islamic militant group associated with Bin Laden ;) Show me facts that Obama has ties to an Islamic militant group, and I'll acknowledge this as an actual statement, not just more bs.

Unless Obama sought out this guys endorsement like McCain did this Hagee character. How does this prove anything?Exactly, 100% right on. Just more propaganda that continues to spill into this once quiet, peaceful testing site.

TIES??? Are you losing your bearings goldmine? McCain is the one with known and proven ties to an Islamic militant group associated with Bin Laden ;) Show me facts that Obama has ties to an Islamic militant group, and I'll acknowledge this as an actual statement, not just more bs.

Exactly, 100% right on. Just more propaganda that continues to spill into this once quiet, peaceful testing site.

ok, this is close enough for me:

Associations one chooses to initiate and/or maintain speaks to one’s character and judgment. For instance, Antoin Rezko – who is currently on trial for Corruption. Senator Obama has received a quarter of a million dollars from this individual, and has had to return it in ever increasing amounts, as the Senator was caught not truthfully disclosing the amount donated. Senator Obama also decided to participate in a real estate deal with Mr. Rezko during a time when he was proven to be under investigation. Despite this, The Senator made a deal to purchase a home, by dividing the property with the Rezko family. The property in question was divided, lot VS. House, because it was out of The Senator’s price range. And so was the down payment. Perhaps this is where Auchi comes in? Only the trial of Rezko can tell us. Continuing, once it was determined that the Senator could not afford the property, $300K was promptly removed from the asking price (in 2005, before mortgage problems drove down home prices). Rezko’s wife stepped in to buy the lot the Senator couldn’t afford, saving him $625,000. Another associate of Senator Obama’s is the founder of the Woods Fund, for which the Senator was its Director for 4 years, William (Abu-Zayd) Ayers. Abu-Zayd, or William Ayers as he was known then, was an American Terrorist who attempted to bomb the Pentagon. Next on our list would be Nadmi Auchi – Iraqi Billionaire swindler who helped himself to money from the Food Or Oil program and may have assisted the Senator is securing the money to put down on his Chicago mansion. Next we have Rashid Khalidi – former PLO spokesman and supporter of terrorism against Israel. Next we have the infamous Jeremiah Wright and James Meeks – rabid racists, anti-American preachers/community leaders, both have an affinity or a direct connection to the Nation of Islam. Speaking of the Nation of Islam, we next have Louis Farrakhan – renowned racist, anti-American, voracious Anti-Semite and homophobe – leader of the Nation of Islam. One would like to ask Senator Obama which of these individuals are the ‘clean’ ones?

c/p
"William Ayers, in the age of terrorism, will be Barack Obama's Willie Horton."
--Former counterterrorism official Larry C. Johnson, The Huffington Post, Feb. 16, 2008.

There has been a sudden spate of blog items and newspaper articles, mainly in the British press, linking Barack Obama to a former member of the radical Weather Underground Organization that claimed responsibility for a dozen bombings between 1970 and 1974. The former Weatherman, William Ayers, now holds the position of distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois-Chicago. Although never convicted of any crime, he told the New York Times in September 2001, "I don't regret setting bombs...I feel we didn't do enough."

Both Obama and Ayers were members of the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 1999 and 2002. In addition, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate in April 2001, as reported here. They lived within a few blocks of each other in the trendy Hyde Park section of Chicago, and moved in the same liberal-progressive circles.

Is there anything here that raises questions about Obama's judgment or is this just another example of guilt by association?

The Facts
The first article in the mainstream press linking Obama to Ayers appeared in the London Daily Mail on February 2. It was written by Peter Hitchens, the right-wing brother of the left-wing firebrand turned Iraq war supporter, Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens cited the Ayers connection to bolster his argument that Obama is "far more radical than he would like us to know."

The Hitchens piece was followed by a Bloomberg article last week pointing to the Ayers connection as support for Hillary Clinton's contention that Obama might not be able to withstand the "Republican attack machine." Larry Johnson, a former counterterrorism official at the CIA and the State Department, predicted that the Republicans would seize on the Ayers case, and other Chicago relationships, to "bludgeon Obama's presidential aspirations into the dust."

The London Sunday Times joined the chorus this weekend by reporting that Republicans were "out to crush Barack by painting him as a leftwinger with dubious support".

The only hard facts that have come out so far are the $200 contribution by Ayers to the Obama re-election fund, and their joint membership of the eight-person Woods Fund Board. Ayers did not respond to e-mails and telephone calls requesting clarification of the relationship. Obama spokesman Bill Burton noted in a statement that Ayers was a professor of education at the University of Illinois and a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley

"close enough" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades ;)

Comparing the huge Hamas organization to these individuals, some of which were employed by American schools and companies, is quite the stretch, but whatever makes you happy :)

if i was as ugly as bill ayers was back in 70's , Id probably wanna blow something up too. lol:p

"close enough" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades ;)

Comparing the huge Hamas organization to these individuals, some of which were employed by American schools and companies, is quite the stretch, but whatever makes you happy :)

Well he is connected strongly to a terrorist organization known as the weather underground, and endorsed by Hamas... Not to mention organized crime with rezco...

Obama should run for mayor of liberty city... He would fit into grand theft auto 4 well.

Obama should run for mayor of liberty city... He would fit into grand theft auto 4 well.

I don't care who you are...that's funny.

Everyone should ask themselves this question:

Who do you think the terrorists want to win the election and why?

The last person they want in there is McCain.

Hondo, just to play devil's advocate for a minute, don't you think staying in Iraq creates a situation in which the United States becomes a "recruiting poster" for terrorists? Doesn't staying in Iraq indefinitely do more harm than good? McCain would want our troops to stay there and Obama would like to pull the troops out. If you were a terrorist leader, which would you prefer to have happen?

Well I see it like this. By staying there you are able to contain them and deny them sanctuary. If we leave they fill the vacuum and also take control of all the oil there. What effect do you think that will have? The terrorists will much prefer us toleave so they can have at it. We are long past the point of discussing whether we should have gotten into this deal or not. We're there now and IMO the collateral effects of us just leaving are too detrimental to consider. The current military strategy seems to be working and I think given enough time we can turn it over to them and withdraw the bulk of our troops from there.

That said I think it's absolutely imperative that we maintain a sizeable military presence there until oil isn't important any longer. If we leave we'll have to go back sooner or later..and the costs will be MUCH higher.

Quote
"That said I think it's absolutely imperative that we maintain a sizeable military presence there until oil isn't important any longer. If we leave we'll have to go back sooner or later..and the costs will be MUCH higher."


When they originally sold this war to us it was because of WMD. Now the reasoning to stay changes almost on a weekly basis. It is too bad we couldn't poll the actual soldiers and ask them what they think would be best. Because as we sit here on our comfy computer chairs saying they should stay forever they are the ones being blown up.

Well the nature and reason for wars change. The Civil War is a prime example.

While we have had 4000 soldiers killed only little more than half of those are actual combat deaths. Protecting our national interests in what soldiers do.

Another way to think of things....4000 deaths in 5 years in Iraq. Almost 100,000 deaths in the US in the last 5 years from drinking and driving.

Where are the protesters for that? I guess if American deaths were really so important we should ban alcohol again right? Or is it that death only matters for "some" issues?

How do accurately measure victory Iraq? Now you are saying the US should stay till oil isn't important anymore. What does that mean we should start riding bikes. The American Soldier has accomplished the mission that they were asked to do. It is easy for anyone who is not in harms way to tell them to stay indefinitely. I am sure Hondo if bombs were being blown up in your face you might have a different opinion. This is not a numbers game these are peoples lives.

Well I've spent a lot of time "in harm's way". So yeah I think I'm more than qualified to speak about it. How about you?

You completely side-stepped the question and the issue. If it's not a "numbers game" then we should ban alcohol immediately right?

Jack Daniels lied and people died!

When you volunteer for military service you know exactly what you are getting into. That's the job. The number of casualites, while tragic, are a small price to pay for our continued economic survival. Freedom ain't free buddy. You take away our being able to get oil and we are royally screwed. We have no energy policy to deal with it. Our survival as a nation, like it or not, is inexorably tied to oil. Until we get off of our asses and start replacing theirs with our own and develop a REAL alternative to oil we will continue to depend on it.

Quote

"When you volunteer for military service you know exactly what you are getting into"

When people signed up for military service to go to Iraq they were not told what they were getting into and thats the problem. If you're going to tell someone to sacrifice themselves for their country the least you can do is tell them why.

I thought it was said for military "Mine is not to reason how or why but to do or die." Our government lies both Democrats and Republicans. Others have wanted to kill American's since the very beginning of this country and always will laying down before your enemy will not appease or make them your friend. It will many them your conquer and then they become your ruler/government.

Well I guess mission accomplished hey granny.

yeah let us keep our troops in Iraq

[QUOTE=fivestar;736353]Quote

"When you volunteer for military service you know exactly what you are getting into"

When people signed up for military service to go to Iraq they were not told what they were getting into and thats the problem. If you're going to tell someone to sacrifice themselves for their country the least you can do is tell them why.[quote]]

naw:no: I was going to make a post in response but I'm not sure you could keep up so I'll pass this time:yes: :lol: :p :D

Actually the choice is clear, stay where ever the terrorists are and fight on their land or run for cover and fight here. Of course then there are those who just want to give up and live under their control or maybe be killed by them anyway. There is a lot to be desired with our government for sure but there has not been another attack on US soil since 911 and if you did not know that was brought to us by Bill and Hillary and they are Democrats. Our high priced fuel is also from Jimmy Carter days, another Democrat who amazed the indusrty when he bought their prediction that the oil would all be gone in a few more years back in the 1970's. Save the owls or whatever and don't drill for oil in the US also is an Al Gore dream, another Democrat. To be fair Republicans are also well invested in reaping the profits of high fuel prices. Oil companies and much of big business covers both parties with plenty of money so they are always favored by the party in power no matter which one it is. In short if you think either of the major political parties are going to fix anything that really benefits the general population and not the welfare poor or the wealthy elite. You truly do have your head buried in the sand and need to be reminded that is your a** sticking out for someone to shoot off...

Grumpy Ole Fart, just curious, did you ever read the enlistment/draft terms of service to this country when you are signed up? Does it really say you are going into service to go here and just do this and this is why you are going? Military service is voluntary and you are free to weigh the reason you enlist. Could be some were just looking for the job pay and benefits like an education after serving and did not consider it is a dangerous occupation. Some actually believe they are serving the country they love. The rest of us are blessed with at least some freedoms still because they have served in the past and now. This grumpy old fart thanks them from the bottom of my heart and applauds them both past and present.

I don't care who you are...that's funny.

Everyone should ask themselves this question:

Who do you think the terrorists want to win the election and why?

The last person they want in there is McCain.

by that logic we should re-elect bush :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

by that logic we should re-elect bush :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Damn good idea:lol: :p :D

Hondo, just to play devil's advocate for a minute, don't you think staying in Iraq creates a situation in which the United States becomes a "recruiting poster" for terrorists? Doesn't staying in Iraq indefinitely do more harm than good? McCain would want our troops to stay there and Obama would like to pull the troops out. If you were a terrorist leader, which would you prefer to have happen?

no way , we make a disney land park there (really) there gonna like Mickey cause we gonna force it on em :rolleyes:

this "cut & run" shit really pisses me off , 1st Obama is not Going to cut & run , he's gonna drop 1 brigade a month , meaning in 2010 we still gonna be heavy up in that place for another 2-3 years minimum , 2nd if I were a terrorist I would want Mccain , why , simple he's for stupid unjust wars (Iraq) & obama is for real justified war ( like Afghanistan) but the most important fact is he WILL got INTO Pakistan ( where the terrorist are & roam free) , Mccain wants to let Pakistan keep training , arming & gaining untold strength since 9-11 , that is why he's gonna get killed in Nov because he's stuck on stupid (IRAQ) , also did I mention he is so old , nap time gramps!;) :hat:

Well I see it like this. By staying there you are able to contain them and deny them sanctuary. If we leave they fill the vacuum and also take control of all the oil there. What effect do you think that will have? The terrorists will much prefer us toleave so they can have at it. We are long past the point of discussing whether we should have gotten into this deal or not. We're there now and IMO the collateral effects of us just leaving are too detrimental to consider. The current military strategy seems to be working and I think given enough time we can turn it over to them and withdraw the bulk of our troops from there.

That said I think it's absolutely imperative that we maintain a sizeable military presence there until oil isn't important any longer. If we leave we'll have to go back sooner or later..and the costs will be MUCH higher.

delusional , the terrorist are in afgan/pakistan , less than 10% of terrorist in Iraq are Al-Qaeda , the rest are HOMEGROWN. as far as that "vaccum" being filled that will be for Iran & al-sadr to deal with ( and u best believe they will run Iraq , whether you like it or not , thats how its gonna be shitte ran, thanks to the US spreading "democracy" there:rolleyes: )

If you were talking about Afghanistan I would agree with everything you said but your talking about Iraq & we don't see eye to eye on that :cry:

delusional , the terrorist are in afgan/pakistan , less than 10% of terrorist in Iraq are Al-Qaeda , the rest are HOMEGROWN. as far as that "vaccum" being filled that will be for Iran & al-sadr to deal with ( and u best believe they will run Iraq , whether you like it or not , thats how its gonna be shitte ran, thanks to the US spreading "democracy" there:rolleyes: )

If you were talking about Afghanistan I would agree with everything you said but your talking about Iraq & we don't see eye to eye on that :cry:

You ever stop to wonder why there are only 10 % al qaeda in Iraq??

We must be doing a good job, :yes:

There was 0% Al Qaeda in Iraq before the invasion. A good job for Al Qaeda.

Actually the choice is clear, stay where ever the terrorists are and fight on their land or run for cover and fight here. Of course then there are those who just want to give up and live under their control or maybe be killed by them anyway. There is a lot to be desired with our government for sure but there has not been another attack on US soil since 911 and if you did not know that was brought to us by Bill and Hillary and they are Democrats. Our high priced fuel is also from Jimmy Carter days, another Democrat who amazed the indusrty when he bought their prediction that the oil would all be gone in a few more years back in the 1970's. Save the owls or whatever and don't drill for oil in the US also is an Al Gore dream, another Democrat. To be fair Republicans are also well invested in reaping the profits of high fuel prices. Oil companies and much of big business covers both parties with plenty of money so they are always favored by the party in power no matter which one it is. In short if you think either of the major political parties are going to fix anything that really benefits the general population and not the welfare poor or the wealthy elite. You truly do have your head buried in the sand and need to be reminded that is your a** sticking out for someone to shoot off...

well that would be afghanistan/pakistan , not Iraq , and please none of this stupid " were fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" , what kinda dumb logic is that , if they want to harm us they WILL , there is 100,000 ways into this country , for example a PLAN ticket :rolleyes: , 2nd 9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq , they played no role . the problem with people on the right is they wanna lump in Anti-war people ( who are against all wars , ie code pink) with Anti-Stupid war (Iraq, it was and always will be a wrong war) when we share nothing in common , the fact is we have handed Iran another country , end of discussion. I want our Milltary out of Iraq & into afghan!

Anything to distract the public from the disaster for America named George Bush.

How many more distractions will be attempted? When the focus is on real issues, Republicans lose big. and there are a lot of real issues. How about fuel prices and collusion between the oil companies. how about war profiteering by Halliburton and others. How about food prices. How about foreclosures. How about warrantless wiretapping ???

I'm not an obama supporter. I agree with Mrs Clinton that she would be a tougher opponent for McCain. She has certainly proved she doesn't give up easily, which is a quality I want in a president. But all of this guilt by association crap is just more of the same Republican diversion.

The Republicans like the high gas prices. The Republicans are celebrating high food prices. The Republicans are ecstatic that middle class people are losing their homes. The Republicans are overjoyed at the cheap illegal immigrant labor they now get. The Reps love the war in Iraq. The Republicans have no problem at all with Guantanamo Bay or with wiretaps without warrants.

The fact is, Republicans have always secretly believed that they ought to be a privileged class, permitted a free pass to violate the law, even as those not Republican are held to the strictest possible legal standard.

Americans should not get distracted by this. What we should do is trounce the Republicans in November. Maybe then they would understand. Maybe then, a movement in their party would bring them back to the wisdom of moderates like Eisenhower.

hey lone cloud
if you hate GB so bad, take yer damn bow and arrows and take yer best shot:yes:

I'm sure there are some who would pay big wampem:wacko:

I love these kind of threads, especially all the trolling comments.

I love these kind of threads, especially all the trolling comments.

and your comment is what:p :D :yes:

There was 0% Al Qaeda in Iraq before the invasion. A good job for Al Qaeda.

and your sure about that:unsure: you were there and counted them??

Anyone who thinks the democrats are going to help the US worker,or get us out of war, needs to look back on the last 16 or more years.Remember NAFTA .Demos voted for it.Remember tax insentives to american companies that moved their production overseas,Demos voted for it.Also,demo was president that got us into every war of the 20th cenyury.And in the 21 century a rep got us into Iraq,but the demos. voted for going,Its ture Regan sent troops abroad, but they came home soon.Nixon begun fighting Vietnam like a real war with saturation booming of Cambodia and North Vietnam, and the liberals in congress made it stop.Vietnam was over then had it not been for the Democracts.But now I have to say that Bush is not only an abomanation to the Republican party, but to the entire nation.And that any of the three canidates will be more of the same.If you dont believe it take a look at how they have voted.And above all don't watch Fox or CNN news.Take a close and unguided look at Ron Paul.Or the Libratarian party.

and your sure about that:unsure: you were there and counted them??
I AM , was there maybe 10 al quada members there before we invade , possibly but there was no Organization until we Invaded , besides Saddam hated Muslim fantastics so they had no place in Iraq ( cause he ruled with an Iron fist ) (yes he hated the people that hated us). Our best option is long past ( we should have handed the leys back over to saddam , told him to cut the shit , & clean up the mess we made , Instead we hung the ONE guy who could keep the peace In Iraq ( ok not exactly peace but it was under control under him , not Iran , like Now)

I AM , was there maybe 10 al quada members there before we invade , possibly but there was no Organization until we Invaded , besides Saddam hated Muslim fantastics so they had no place in Iraq ( cause he ruled with an Iron fist ) (yes he hated the people that hated us). Our best option is long past ( we should have handed the leys back over to saddam , told him to cut the shit , & clean up the mess we made , Instead we hung the ONE guy who could keep the peace In Iraq ( ok not exactly peace but it was under control under him , not Iran , like Now)

No disrespect intended EM, but the UN could not get in to check if he was following their demands, so how can you be so sure that there were no Al Qaeda there before the war?

I think there are a lot of things that have been said about the war, and the results of it, that are not reported correctly, ( By the Press) that is just my
opinion , and I am entitled to that as are you.:yes:

The UN DID go in and they DID inspect, where were you? Blix himself said that nothing sustainable was found, and he was one of the heads of the agency. The shit that Powell and Cheney fabricated is what got us into this war. Even after 97 when the disarming program began the UN stayed there to inspect it all for several years, before and after Clinton administration.

The UN DID go in and they DID inspect, where were you? Blix himself said that nothing sustainable was found, and he was one of the heads of the agency. The shit that Powell and Cheney fabricated is what got us into this war. Even after 97 when the disarming program began the UN stayed there to inspect it all for several years, before and after Clinton administration.

somehow key pieces of the initial UN report were dropped by the war machine of the Bush administration and came up with a new rabbit trick...WMD. Anybody, who has forgotten the crap about the famous speech ".. you are either with us, or against us.." doesn't comprehend the methods instituted in selling the war to the general population.;)

Sorry guys but thats not the way I remember it went down.

I am reading a book on the war, co written by General Chuck Horner.

in it he states that Sadam Did block the UN on many occasions to area and then would back down. In his opinion, and many others, this was so he ould move his scuds around

I'm no expert, don't claim to be but I do read some and still believe there were, and still are WMD in Iraq. they have found bunkers buried very deep, and who'e to say that's not what Sadam did with them.

Again, My opinion

Fair enough papa, I respect everyone's opinion, including yours. You should also pick up a book Hans Blix written not too long ago called "Disarming Iraq", good read in my opinion, which touches on alot of issues concerning UN inspections.

Well he is connected strongly to a terrorist organization known as the weather underground, and endorsed by Hamas... Not to mention organized crime with rezco...
Strongly connected to the Weather Underground? What, when he was 8 or 10 years old? Hell, they were no longer a "group" by the time Obama was about 17 or 18. He served on a board for a couple of years with a man that had no criminal charges brought against him and that's "strongly connected"? If that's the case, I'm "strongly connected" to a former coke dealer that I worked with for a few years, that was convicted of trafficking 20 years prior. :wacko: I would be more worried about Hilary's association with her husband...the one that pardoned 2 former Underground members that were serving 50+ years for being convicted of bombings.

"Endorsed by Hamas"? Irrelevant. He didn't ask for it, just as McCain didn't seek Hagee's approval. He didn't ask for it, just as Clinton didn't seek Rev. Calvin Butts approval...oh wait, she did. And he agrees with Wright's use of rhetoric in sermons and whatnot. Bad Hilary :(

As for Rezko...she doesn't know him...
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb167/beehive2007/clinton-rezko.jpg
hxxp://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdogs/757340,CST-NWS-watchdog24.article
Nice summary of facts related to his "organized crime" ties.

Hondo, just to play devil's advocate for a minute, don't you think staying in Iraq creates a situation in which the United States becomes a "recruiting poster" for terrorists? Doesn't staying in Iraq indefinitely do more harm than good? McCain would want our troops to stay there and Obama would like to pull the troops out. If you were a terrorist leader, which would you prefer to have happen?This is a very strong possibility.

Well I've spent a lot of time "in harm's way". So yeah I think I'm more than qualified to speak about it. How about you?

You completely side-stepped the question and the issue. If it's not a "numbers game" then we should ban alcohol immediately right?

Jack Daniels lied and people died!

When you volunteer for military service you know exactly what you are getting into. That's the job. The number of casualites, while tragic, are a small price to pay for our continued economic survival. Freedom ain't free buddy. You take away our being able to get oil and we are royally screwed. We have no energy policy to deal with it. Our survival as a nation, like it or not, is inexorably tied to oil. Until we get off of our asses and start replacing theirs with our own and develop a REAL alternative to oil we will continue to depend on it.Maybe we should put some of the half a trillion/year these unnecessary wars cost us into more development on solar, hydro, and wind energy and alternative vehicle fuels? Sounds like a good idea to me rather than continue to piss of the extremists of the world. We could go after them for eternity, they will keep coming until we stop trying to force democracy where people don't want it. Just as the Holy War in the middle-east rages on for hundreds or thousands of years, this "Jihad" against America will continue until we gtfo of other people's business. Of course, we still need to maintain some sort of surveillance and act accordingly when there's a direct threat of harm, but to preemptively strike with botched intelligence time after time will get us nowhere...ever...except guarantee that extremists will continue to succeed in disrupting the world and our economy.

first of all let me say i am canadain and support the military in every aspect , my son is in the military and staioned in iraq as we speak, but for a canadian's point of view this war has gone on too long, too many lives from every nation involved has meant death...we as humans can respect what has happened since 911 has changed the way we live or think but no matter who gets elected this person has to deal with what Bush has started...JMO but i think george jr is getting input from george sr, and we all must admit what he was like....every polition no matter of sex or color wants to change the world, but ever since tricky dicky no polition in my mind can be trusted wether from canada or US.....

Just as the Holy War in the middle-east rages on for hundreds or thousands of years, this "Jihad" against America will continue until we gtfo of other people's business.

so.... are trying to say that if we leave Iraq, that these extremist will just leave us alone?? if i remember correctly...we weren't in iraq when they flew two air planes into the world trade center, and several other "acts of war" against us before and after that....you couldn't possibly be that nieve...or could you? these people will NEVER stop....their BIBLE (KORAN)...tells them NOT TO!!!!! and they are passionate about it!!!!!!

so.... are trying to say that if we leave Iraq, that these extremist will just leave us alone?? if i remember correctly...we weren't in iraq when they flew two air planes into the world trade center, and several other "acts of war" against us....you couldn't possibly be that nieve...or could you? these people will NEVER stop....their BIBLE (KORAN)...tells them NOT TO!!!!! and they are passionate about it!!!!!!
They will have more of a chance of leaving us alone than if we keep meddling.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it's been disproven time and time again, even from the horse's (Bush) mouth!

I've not read the Koran, but if it says something about killing Americans, then please find it. I'm almost certain it says something about protecting their holy land and whatnot, which they are defending in response to our foreign policy, just as they would if China or another nation did what we are doing. I'm all for operations in Afghanistan, where proven terrorist camps are, but Iraq was all about oil from the beginning, not Al-Qaeda.

Americans, Britons, Germans etc did NOT exist when the Koran was written..but we are ALL covered in it...see the reference to IFIDELS
So dont nit pick you know Americans are not listed by name and the reason why...and Not just their holy land but waging war and ANY and ALL Infidels
Worldwide anywhere they are......very simple and plain

They will have more of a chance of leaving us alone than if we keep meddling.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, it's been disproven time and time again, even from the horse's (Bush) mouth!

I've not read the Koran, but if it says something about killing Americans, then please find it. I'm almost certain it says something about protecting their holy land and whatnot, which they are defending in response to our foreign policy, just as they would if China or another nation did what we are doing. I'm all for operations in Afghanistan, where proven terrorist camps are, but Iraq was all about oil from the beginning, not Al-Qaeda.

well, this seems pretty clear to me...........

Qu'ran Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

It should be clear that this verse commands Muslims to wage war on all non-Muslims around them.
Beheading was practiced by the Prophet Muhammad himself during the 7th century period of Islam and by the most Islamic rulers thereafter. The above quote i put i took from a copy of the quaran itself since my friend is a muslim.
Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide is a book by historian and scholar of Islamic culture Bat Ye'or
"The ideology of jihad was formulated by Muslim theologians from the eighth century onward. It separates humanity into two hostile blocks — the community of Muslims, and the infidels. According to this ideology, Allah commands the Muslims to conquer the whole world in order to apply Koranic laws. Hence, they have to wage a perpetual war against the infidels who refuse to submit. Its principle is based on the inequality between the community of Allah and the infidels. The first is a superior group, whose mission it is to rule the world. The second must submit."
I think this is accurate proof enough supporting what I've always personally said and felt...that yes it does mention not once but various times throughout the Koran that you must kill the infidel at all costs just because you dont follow in the muslim faith or belive in allah. And islam is the peaceful religion??

Koran 9:29

This is what many of our enemies believe about the rest of the worlds population:

“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191

“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123

“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85

“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30

“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33

“The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.” Koran 9:28

“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4

“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65

“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12

“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60

and this says it all...

if OHB ever is President,will he swear on the Holy Bible or the koran...hmmmm

and let us not forget that Mr. Obama has stated in his book............

From Audacity of Hope:
'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

The problem is unlike other long wars the United States has been involved in there hasn't been any personal sacrifice from the American people. Thats why this war has gone on for so long. It is very easy for you to wave the American flag and ask someone else's son or daughter to make the ultimate sacrifice while you go out shopping. The Iraq war was a mistake period. And anyone out there that still believes Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or were somehow involved in 911, I have an old RCA HU card I could sell you.

Americans, Britons, Germans etc did NOT exist when the Koran was written..but we are ALL covered in it...see the reference to IFIDELS
So dont nit pick you know Americans are not listed by name and the reason why...and Not just their holy land but waging war and ANY and ALL Infidels
Worldwide anywhere they are......very simple and plainThe term "infidel" was first used by Christians to describe non-Christians. Infidel is derived from Latin words, something that Islam never did. Because of a handful of Muslim extremists, you feel that all of Islam is directed by the Koran to kill us all?


well, this seems pretty clear to me...........

Qu'ran Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

It should be clear that this verse commands Muslims to wage war on all non-Muslims around them.
Beheading was practiced by the Prophet Muhammad himself during the 7th century period of Islam and by the most Islamic rulers thereafter. The above quote i put i took from a copy of the quaran itself since my friend is a muslim.
Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide is a book by historian and scholar of Islamic culture Bat Ye'or
"The ideology of jihad was formulated by Muslim theologians from the eighth century onward. It separates humanity into two hostile blocks — the community of Muslims, and the infidels. According to this ideology, Allah commands the Muslims to conquer the whole world in order to apply Koranic laws. Hence, they have to wage a perpetual war against the infidels who refuse to submit. Its principle is based on the inequality between the community of Allah and the infidels. The first is a superior group, whose mission it is to rule the world. The second must submit."
I think this is accurate proof enough supporting what I've always personally said and felt...that yes it does mention not once but various times throughout the Koran that you must kill the infidel at all costs just because you dont follow in the muslim faith or belive in allah. And islam is the peaceful religion??

Koran 9:29

This is what many of our enemies believe about the rest of the worlds population:

“Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191

“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123

“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Koran 9:5

“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85

“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Koran 9:30

“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33

“The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.” Koran 9:28

“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Koran 47:4

“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65

“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12

“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60It's pretty clear to me that those are some of the funniest "translations" of the Qur'an I've ever seen...another mass email? I can't find any translations like that.

For example, the literal translation of 2:191
"2:191 - You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers."

This deals with killing in self-defense. A far cry from “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Your garbage came from someone who doesn't understand Islam and thinks all of Islam is out to kill or convert anyone that is not. Absurd, as usual.
and let us not forget that Mr. Obama has stated in his book............

From Audacity of Hope:
'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

You still don't see what you do here on a daily basis...here's the actual quote, from page 261...
"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."Where do you see "Muslims"? It's made up by people like yourself in an attempt to smear someone for no apparent reason, other than hatred or ignorance. :yes: Enough already. Argue in facts, not bullshit.

What you state is open for dispute and MANY scholars are at odds with who used the Term (Infidel) first

And no NOT all Muslims are extremist...but a good portion of them are becoming more so as the Iman's are teaching and preaching much more radical Islam.
Question BH have you ever been over there? Ever served over there or worked in a security function over there?
I ask because until you have been there and spent a bit of time there you have no REAL bearing on just how far spread the radical aspects of Islam are becoming.
And yes you do have Very fine and nice people over there....some of the Palestinians I have come across have not a pot of piss or a window to throw it out of...but will go out of their way to welcome you and give you all they have.
But for every family of those....you have Quite a few that would just as soon slit ANY westerners throat. And don't hand me the horse shit that we are the cause of it....this cycle has been going on for milenia and will always continue too.
Yes what is happening is not helping, but the radicals look for ANY excuse to propagate their hateful agenda.

so.... are trying to say that if we leave Iraq, that these extremist will just leave us alone?? if i remember correctly...we weren't in iraq when they flew two air planes into the world trade center, and several other "acts of war" against us before and after that....you couldn't possibly be that nieve...or could you?

We weren't in Iraq, but we had a significant military presence in Saudi Arabia that we had maintained since the 1st Gulf War. We had troops and an air base from which 250,000 missions were flown to enforce the Iraq "no fly zone".

It appears that bin Laden's contention was that the American military foothold was an affront to the kingdom's sovereignty. For years, the American presence not far from Islam's two holiest sites, at Mecca and Medina, has provided Al Qaeda with an important rallying cry. And 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

So is our presence over there good for our national security or is it like swatting a hornet's nest with a stick ?

What you state is open for dispute and MANY scholars are at odds with who used the Term (Infidel) firstThen why would you post what you did if it's disputed? If you know it's origin's are disputed, it makes no sense to post what you did about Infidels and assume that the word is a Muslim term. It is equally referred to as having origins by Christianity during the Crusades.

And no NOT all Muslims are extremist...but a good portion of them are becoming more so as the Iman's are teaching and preaching much more radical Islam.
Question BH have you ever been over there? Ever served over there or worked in a security function over there?
I ask because until you have been there and spent a bit of time there you have no REAL bearing on just how far spread the radical aspects of Islam are becoming.
And yes you do have Very fine and nice people over there....some of the Palestinians I have come across have not a pot of piss or a window to throw it out of...but will go out of their way to welcome you and give you all they have.
But for every family of those....you have Quite a few that would just as soon slit ANY westerners throat. And don't hand me the horse shit that we are the cause of it....this cycle has been going on for milenia and will always continue too.
Yes what is happening is not helping, but the radicals look for ANY excuse to propagate their hateful agenda.Radical Islam has not been attacking westerners for "millenia". I can't think of much of anything that happened before the Beirut embassy attack in the early 80's that was radical Islam's response against westerners. Radical Islam has been at it with the Jews for a very long time, "millenia", if you will. The only reason America and it's allies (not including Israel) are becoming more of a target is directly because of our foreign policy...that fact is evident in the lack of radical Islam attacks on westerners prior to the past 25 or so years. We only became a target when we allied with Israel. We are the cause of it in my, and many other's, opinion's.

For the most part you all have the same outlook, when someone is trying to kill you if you are to survive kill them first! I simply can not understand the idea some have of trying to negotiate with the bullet coming at your head.
If you are a pacifist you will always argue to negotiate and never to fight and always blame the ones who will fight for getting into the fight and when it gets nasty the pacifist hopes someone will save their a**
WOMD, if I read it right Saddam not only had them but used them on the people in his own country! The inspection was a sham when you tell some one when and where and let them delay you from entering the area until you have time to move and hide what may be there...

Quote

"WOMD, if I read it right Saddam not only had them but used them on the people in his own country!"

20yrs ago he used chemical weapons on the kurds and the US did nothing. Guess where he got the chemicals from? Not only did the US not do anything about it, but they gave him even more after that.

WOMD, if I read it right Saddam not only had them but used them on the people in his own country! The inspection was a sham when you tell some one when and where and let them delay you from entering the area until you have time to move and hide what may be there...
The gassing happened before the 1st Iraq "war", 20 years ago...it was dealt with. There was absloutely no credible evidence of any WMD this time around. It was a blanket that the Bush administration used to justify "war".

The gassing happened before the 1st Iraq "war", 20 years ago...it was dealt with. There was absloutely no credible evidence of any WMD this time around. It was a blanket that the Bush administration used to justify "war".

In My opinion, THAT is Just Your opinion:yes: your using that "Blanket" here:lol: :p :D

In My opinion, THAT is Just Your opinion:yes: your using that "Blanket" here:lol: :p :D

Since no WMD have been found, what else could it be, other than a blanket? The reason for the invasion was WMD, none found, yet 5+ years later, we're still sending troops there...pretty obvious there's other motivation...

The problem is unlike other long wars the United States has been involved in there hasn't been any personal sacrifice from the American people. Thats why this war has gone on for so long. It is very easy for you to wave the American flag and ask someone else's son or daughter to make the ultimate sacrifice while you go out shopping. The Iraq war was a mistake period. And anyone out there that still believes Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or were somehow involved in 911, I have an old RCA HU card I could sell you.

Anyone who supports this war, other than wearing a flagpin how have you supported the troops?

Strongly connected to the Weather Underground? What, when he was 8 or 10 years old? Hell, they were no longer a "group" by the time Obama was about 17 or 18. He served on a board for a couple of years with a man that had no criminal charges brought against him and that's "strongly connected"? If that's the case, I'm "strongly connected" to a former coke dealer that I worked with for a few years, that was convicted of trafficking 20 years prior. :wacko: I would be more worried about Hilary's association with her husband...the one that pardoned 2 former Underground members that were serving 50+ years for being convicted of bombings.

"Endorsed by Hamas"? Irrelevant. He didn't ask for it, just as McCain didn't seek Hagee's approval. He didn't ask for it, just as Clinton didn't seek Rev. Calvin Butts approval...oh wait, she did. And he agrees with Wright's use of rhetoric in sermons and whatnot. Bad Hilary :(

As for Rezko...she doesn't know him...
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb167/beehive2007/clinton-rezko.jpg
hxxp://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdogs/757340,CST-NWS-watchdog24.article
Nice summary of facts related to his "organized crime" ties.

This is a very strong possibility.

Maybe we should put some of the half a trillion/year these unnecessary wars cost us into more development on solar, hydro, and wind energy and alternative vehicle fuels? Sounds like a good idea to me rather than continue to piss of the extremists of the world. We could go after them for eternity, they will keep coming until we stop trying to force democracy where people don't want it. Just as the Holy War in the middle-east rages on for hundreds or thousands of years, this "Jihad" against America will continue until we gtfo of other people's business. Of course, we still need to maintain some sort of surveillance and act accordingly when there's a direct threat of harm, but to preemptively strike with botched intelligence time after time will get us nowhere...ever...except guarantee that extremists will continue to succeed in disrupting the world and our economy.

I agree , google earth there ass 24/7 lol

so.... are trying to say that if we leave Iraq, that these extremist will just leave us alone?? if i remember correctly...we weren't in iraq when they flew two air planes into the world trade center, and several other "acts of war" against us before and after that....you couldn't possibly be that nieve...or could you? these people will NEVER stop....their BIBLE (KORAN)...tells them NOT TO!!!!! and they are passionate about it!!!!!!

exactly , and we are there now for what ? Iraq HAD NOTHING to do with 911 hell even the military admits it , did we screw up , sure but that does not mean it can't be corrected & staying the Course is not the answer .

20 years ago and it is still being blamed on Bush I suppose. Has the entire sand pile and all the mountain caves and any other holes in that country been explored and then there is that other friendly country or two next door. There was plenty of time to hide and move weapons while the UN "negotiated" with them. The primary problem is we are still trying to fight a "limited war." There are other countries in the region that are as bad and worse enemies including some of our "friends." Face the facts of history, Democrats do not have the desire and resolve to "win" wars. Truman removed MacArthur who wanted to chase the North Koreans into China. Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, Vietnam was a failure for both parties and ended in a tuck your tail and run. America's enemies know all this and that is the real problem as they have no respectful fear of us and know that if they hit and run long enough we will in turn run form them or call some kind of "peace" to end fighting.
A wise man does not fight at the drop of a hat for minor things and when he does fight he fights to win completely and fully so as to not have to fight the same enemy again.

I gotta ask who here think that the war in Iraq is making America safer ?

How do you feel about the terrorist that KILLED people on 9/11 ,still roaming free & are stronger than ever in Afghan/Pakistan ? does this make u sick?

what is to be gained from the war in Iraq for the US?

When will we focus on the REAL war?:mad:

Since no WMD have been found, what else could it be, other than a blanket? The reason for the invasion was WMD, none found, yet 5+ years later, we're still sending troops there...pretty obvious there's other motivation...

Just Because there have been "none found" does not and never will mean they are not there.
trying to convince me of your obama belief's ain't gonna happen,:no: your wasting your time:yes:

I don't like him, never will, I think he will destroy this country, Reason??

If he's elected the white middle class will revolt, if he dosent the black section will revolt. it's damned it ya do damned if ya don't. I just glad I as old as I am and ain't gonna have to put with his, and his supporters shit for the next 30 years.

You ain't gonna change my mind I'm not gonna change yours , so I'm not going to post anymore responses to your posts.

hate to be that way but I'm tired of the hassel

see ya round man:D

The problem is unlike other long wars the United States has been involved in there hasn't been any personal sacrifice from the American people. Thats why this war has gone on for so long. It is very easy for you to wave the American flag and ask someone else's son or daughter to make the ultimate sacrifice while you go out shopping. The Iraq war was a mistake period. And anyone out there that still believes Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or were somehow involved in 911, I have an old RCA HU card I could sell you.

yea ,me too except mine is Nagra 3 ready ( notice i said ready):rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just Because there have been "none found" does not and never will mean they are not there.
trying to convince me of your obama belief's ain't gonna happen,:no: your wasting your time:yes:

I don't like him, never will, I think he will destroy this country, Reason??

If he's elected the white middle class will revolt, if he dosent the black section will revolt. it's damned it ya do damned if ya don't. I just glad I as old as I am and ain't gonna have to put with his, and his supporters shit for the next 30 years.

You ain't gonna change my mind I'm not gonna change yours , so I'm not going to post anymore responses to your posts.

hate to be that way but I'm tired of the hassel

see ya round man:D

you are right...it's a loose loose proposition at best...

What you state is open for dispute and MANY scholars are at odds with who used the Term (Infidel) first

And no NOT all Muslims are extremist...but a good portion of them are becoming more so as the Iman's are teaching and preaching much more radical Islam.
Question BH have you ever been over there? Ever served over there or worked in a security function over there?
I ask because until you have been there and spent a bit of time there you have no REAL bearing on just how far spread the radical aspects of Islam are becoming.
And yes you do have Very fine and nice people over there....some of the Palestinians I have come across have not a pot of piss or a window to throw it out of...but will go out of their way to welcome you and give you all they have.
But for every family of those....you have Quite a few that would just as soon slit ANY westerners throat. And don't hand me the horse shit that we are the cause of it....this cycle has been going on for milenia and will always continue too.
Yes what is happening is not helping, but the radicals look for ANY excuse to propagate their hateful agenda.

no but the blind "faith" we have in Israel doesn't help us one bit , that only fuels there fire!

We weren't in Iraq, but we had a significant military presence in Saudi Arabia that we had maintained since the 1st Gulf War. We had troops and an air base from which 250,000 missions were flown to enforce the Iraq "no fly zone".

It appears that bin Laden's contention was that the American military foothold was an affront to the kingdom's sovereignty. For years, the American presence not far from Islam's two holiest sites, at Mecca and Medina, has provided Al Qaeda with an important rallying cry. And 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

So is our presence over there good for our national security or is it like swatting a hornet's nest with a stick ?

on no another facts guy:rolleyes:

I would say its like covering your body in honey then swatting a hornets nest with a stick !

Just Because there have been "none found" does not and never will mean they are not there.
trying to convince me of your obama belief's ain't gonna happen,:no: your wasting your time:yes:

I don't like him, never will, I think he will destroy this country, Reason??

If he's elected the white middle class will revolt, if he dosent the black section will revolt. it's damned it ya do damned if ya don't. I just glad I as old as I am and ain't gonna have to put with his, and his supporters shit for the next 30 years.

You ain't gonna change my mind I'm not gonna change yours , so I'm not going to post anymore responses to your posts.

hate to be that way but I'm tired of the hassel

see ya round man:D

I can be Damned , i except that :p :p

I know old timers will probably never vote for him , I totally get it tho , I know people who want either , but it don't matter unless Mccain picks a democrat as his VP , he has no chance , you simply cannot get elected with just white people ( & sense the repub don't have any black, Latino or Asian support its over) this was a huge mistake they made in the bid for the nomination , true MCCain my have a little Latino vote but thats it!

20 years ago and it is still being blamed on Bush I suppose. Has the entire sand pile and all the mountain caves and any other holes in that country been explored and then there is that other friendly country or two next door. There was plenty of time to hide and move weapons while the UN "negotiated" with them. The primary problem is we are still trying to fight a "limited war." There are other countries in the region that are as bad and worse enemies including some of our "friends." Face the facts of history, Democrats do not have the desire and resolve to "win" wars. Truman removed MacArthur who wanted to chase the North Koreans into China. Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, Vietnam was a failure for both parties and ended in a tuck your tail and run. America's enemies know all this and that is the real problem as they have no respectful fear of us and know that if they hit and run long enough we will in turn run form them or call some kind of "peace" to end fighting.
A wise man does not fight at the drop of a hat for minor things and when he does fight he fights to win completely and fully so as to not have to fight the same enemy again.

are u the same granny from 10x?

Not on 10X ain't a size 10 either, actually took the ID because granpa was already taken. Just an opinionated old hillbilly fart...LOL
Actually I considered Obama when he first started speaking, but he talked me out of as he kept talking and looking like a true politician. I am for what you want me to be when I am with you, but when I make the next stop I will be for them. Hillary is even more that way as Bill taught her how. McCain has been there as well but he also has faced the enemy and understands more than the others how to face an enemy. While some have it in for Cindy, I watched and listened to her speak with Jay Leno on the tonight show and was very impressed with her manor and strength and she spoke without any BS campaigning for her husband. Truth is I was for Ross Perot as the last chance for this country to get turned back toward it's roots. Now I keep hoping the government will go so broke it can't bail out the bankers and Wall Street and we get a real recession that will straighten things out again...

Not on 10X ain't a size 10 either, actually took the ID because granpa was already taken. Just an opinionated old hillbilly fart...LOL
Actually I considered Obama when he first started speaking, but he talked me out of as he kept talking and looking like a true politician. I am for what you want me to be when I am with you, but when I make the next stop I will be for them. Hillary is even more that way as Bill taught her how. McCain has been there as well but he also has faced the enemy and understands more than the others how to face an enemy. While some have it in for Cindy, I watched and listened to her speak with Jay Leno on the tonight show and was very impressed with her manor and strength and she spoke without any BS campaigning for her husband. Truth is I was for Ross Perot as the last chance for this country to get turned back toward it's roots. Now I keep hoping the government will go so broke it can't bail out the bankers and Wall Street and we get a real recession that will straighten things out again...

ok u another granny then , thats cool!
yea thats was a real down to earth conversation she had with leno , suprised me was pretty good ! and she's smokin hot for 50:wow:

Just Because there have been "none found" does not and never will mean they are not there.
trying to convince me of your obama belief's ain't gonna happen,:no: your wasting your time:yes:
papa, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I just want the smear sh!t to stop.

And this has nothing to do with me convincing you to vote Obama :lol:

Years of spy satellites, drone planes, and covert surveillance on the ground have come up with nothing. This has been the case since the end of the 1st Gulf War in the early 90's. Nothing of any significance has been found for well over 15 years. I suppose you won't answer this out of fear of being converted ( :p ), but how long do we stay there and look? Forever and a day? Put your feelings about Obama, Bush, or any other politician aside and take a real look at this. There's nothing there. We can't continue to spend half a trillion dollars a year to find something that's not there. We've admitted there's nothing there to look for, so why are we still there? To force democracy on the Iraqi people and set up a U.S. backed government that will help us get the oil we need. Even tho the whole reason to go to "war" was the admittedly non-existent WMD.

I am white middle class and I plan to revolt on 4 more years of "lost bearings". :D

Straight from the horses mouth, "anything that was unaccounted for existed," which pretty much explains why we're still looking :D