got this from another site got to be true look at lynsat nagra 3


"Increases in theft of our signal or our competitors' signal could limit our subscriber growth and cause subscriber churn to increase. Our signal encryption has been compromised by theft of service, and even though we continue to respond to compromises of our encryption system with security measures intended to make signal theft of our programing more difficult, theft of our signal is increasing. We cannot assure you that we will be successful in reducing or controlling theft of our service.

During 2005, we replaced our smart cards in order to reduce theft of our service. However, the smart card replacement did not fully secure our system, and we have since implemented software patches and other security measures to help protect our service. Nevertheless, these security measures are short-term fixes and we remain susceptible to additional signal theft. Therefore, we have developed a plan to replace our existing smart cards and/or security chips to re-secure our signals for a longer term which will be implemented later this year. The project is expected to take approximately nine to twelve months to complete. While our existing smart cards installed in 2005 remain under warranty, we could incur operational costs in excess of $50 million in connection with our smart card replacement program."
:(

are the coders ready<_<

YAWWWWWwwwwwnnnnnnn

so what else is new...same game, different year..

besides.. I cannot see them wasting millions of $$ when they are supposed to be getting ready to swap out receivers for HD units to the tune of hundreds of mils...

just another rumor...

YAWWWWWwwwwwnnnnnnn

so what else is new...same game, different year..

besides.. I cannot see them wasting millions of $$ when they are supposed to be getting ready to swap out receivers for HD units to the tune of hundreds of mils...

just another rumor...


But with that being said, whats your thoughts about HD units being delayed due to the fact of current signal integrity?

YAWWWWWwwwwwnnnnnnn

so what else is new...same game, different year..

besides.. I cannot see them wasting millions of $$ when they are supposed to be getting ready to swap out receivers for HD units to the tune of hundreds of mils...

just another rumor...

I don't know a shit about all that cards technology, and I have some questions probably somebody can answer:
What if new receivers designed already to work fine with new "Nagra X" or whatever encryption gonna be and still can work with older Nagra 2 encryption. Is it possible? In that case all D* have to do just change old D* receivers with no support of newer encryption. They can take time to change these receivers and then just change encryption one day.
I don't wanna scare anybody, I'm just looking for technically correct answer.

did u guys take a look at lynsat under the encrpt. of the channels says
nagra 2/nagra 3 wasnt there before and with bev doing a swap looks like its coming.

this part may be a rumor
some of the guys say europe be using nagra 3 for at least 6 months now and
it hasnt been cracked yet.

YAWWWWWwwwwwnnnnnnn

so what else is new...same game, different year..

besides.. I cannot see them wasting millions of $$ when they are supposed to be getting ready to swap out receivers for HD units to the tune of hundreds of mils...

just another rumor...

Well I doubt it's a rumour.... There sister provider... the one we can't talk about has started a card swap...:yes:

Agreed this should be moved to Rumors section.

You think something in a share holders press release is a rumour? I am having a hard time finding a link to the actual press release but the fact that Nagra 3 is in the stream (according to Lyngsat) pretty substantial supporting evidence.

I don't know a shit about all that cards technology, and I have some questions probably somebody can answer:
What if new receivers designed already to work fine with new "Nagra X" or whatever encryption gonna be and still can work with older Nagra 2 encryption. Is it possible?

Not only possible, it is how it works. The receivers don't know anything, or at least not much, about Nagra 2 or 3. They only know about CSA (Common Scrambling Algorithm hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Scrambling_Algorithm). The video is encrypted with CSA. The key for the CSA encryption changes about every 8 seconds. It is only this CSA key that is encrypted with Nagra 2 and/or Nagra 3. It is the smart card or chip that knows all about Nagra 2 or Nagra 3, and both can be in the stream at the same time. The Nagra information takes up very little room in the stream.

In that case all D* have to do just change old D* receivers with no support of newer encryption. They can take time to change these receivers and then just change encryption one day.
I don't wanna scare anybody, I'm just looking for technically correct answer.

They don't have to do that because they can use Nagra 2 and Nagra 3 at the same time, and according to Lynsat are doing that right now.

Don't get your panty hose in a knot. This is being worked on! All will be good!

yep were all good just as long as they don't pull a directv move

Read page 5 of the document (page 12 in adobe) first paragraph. See if this should really be moved to rumors. Being this was filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, it should be fairly accurate.

You think something in a share holders press release is a rumour? I am having a hard time finding a link to the actual press release but the fact that Nagra 3 is in the stream (according to Lyngsat) pretty substantial supporting evidence.

So far there is no fact supporting a card swap in the next few months. Eventually its going to happen. I am sure there was a share holders press conference. Would you want to invest in a company that was giving away its products and or services and losing money? It might not really be a loss but if they stopped all piracy right now maybe 10,000 people would sub, maybe 100,000. They want the share holders to believe that they can increase profits. How many true testers have a valid sub? I know I do. So if the game ended today how many people woud really sub? Thats a risky gamble.

Read page 5 of the document (page 12 in adobe) first paragraph. See if this should really be moved to rumors. Being this was filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, it should be fairly accurate.

c/p From the Document:
During 2005, we replaced our smart cards in order to reduce theft of our service. However, the smart card replacement did not fully secure our system, and we have since implemented software patches and other security measures to help protect our service. Nevertheless, these security measures are short-term fixes and we remain susceptible to additional signal theft. Therefore, we have developed a plan to replace our existing smart cards and/or security chips to re-secure our signals for a longer term which will be implemented later this year. The project is expected to take approximately nine to twelve months to complete. While our existing smart cards installed in 2005 remain under warranty, we could incur operational costs in excess of $50 million in connection with our smart card replacement program. We are also vulnerable to fraud, particularly in the acquisition of new subscribers. While we are addressing the impact of subscriber fraud through a number of actions, including eliminating certain payment options for subscribers, such as the use of pre-paid debit cards, there can be no assurance that we will not continue to experience fraud which could impact our subscriber growth and churn.
End of c/p

Great post magic0

Therefore, we have developed a plan to replace our existing
smart cards and/or security chips to re-secure our signals for a longer term which will be implemented later this year. The project is expected to
take approximately nine to twelve months to complete

That year in bold would be this year, being this was filed 2/28/2008

It would take about 83,000 New subs in 1 year to cover the cost of the card swap.
Avg $50/mo x 12mo= $600
$50,000,000/$600= 83,333

Not to mention the the cost of the equipment they give most new subs: A dish, upto 4 Recievers.

It will definately take some time to pay off for the new cards, just imagine if it dont work. :wow:

Dish is growing still at about 1M subscribers per year anyway.

So far there is no fact supporting a card swap in the next few months. Eventually its going to happen.

That iis true but irrelevant since the argument wasn't that it would start in the next few months. It was that it would start later this year. A SEC filing is about as factual as you can get as to what a company is going to do. Note that Ergen certifies that, "Based on my knowledge, this report does not contain any untrue statement of a material fact..."

Also it is fact that Nagra 3 is already in the stream. In fact in some ways you could argue that the card swap has actually already started since the first step of a card swap is to put the new encryption in the stream.

thank coders @dsstester

This will happen but not in this year. ALready in the north are going to do it. Then DN will see how last that encrypted will last.

why is it that dn cant keep there signal from getting stolen but direct has kept these from getting stolen for years now..when dn changed last time there was new files out in a very short time..

DTV actually NDS made a card that was a proprietary card, for FTV only. Nagra is used worldwide.

DTV actually NDS made a card that was a proprietary card, for FTV only. Nagra is used worldwide.

does that mean that nagra 3 should not be to hard to crack when implemented?? and if so why don`t they go the route direct did?

does that mean that nagra 3 should not be to hard to crack when implemented?? and if so why don`t they go the route direct did?

Nagra3 has been Europe for some 2 years(I belive) and supposed has not be hacked.<_<

DTV actually NDS made a card that was a proprietary card, for FTV only. Nagra is used worldwide.

Or does it mean more people are gonna benefit from the hacking of it? Therefore more people will be working on Nagra 3?

Maybe what this all means is enjoy what we have for now, the future is becoming more uncertain with the big one potentially on the horizon and probably don't make any big investments in new or upgraded hardware until things become more clear.

Even if N3 has been around for some time, there hasn't been any current need to break N3 for now (or release code that breaks it) when N2 cracking works fine. A big difference from hobby killing events of the past is that using FTA for hacking DN is certainly big business, so we can expect the profit motive and mega bucks thrown at it will drive the hacking of N3, if it can be hacked. Let's just hope the solution, if it exists, will use current hardware but that might be iffy.

Absolutely

Thanks OldGamer, good info.

I'll save it for the next time to save days of total frustration.

thanks
Jack

hehe perhaps dave will be testable again by the time n3 is implemented :)

hehe perhaps dave will be testable again by the time n3 is implemented :)

Thats what a few people are saying. If charlie shuts down testing, it will bring the dave hack public. IF there is one.

So far there is no fact supporting a card swap in the next few months. Eventually its going to happen. I am sure there was a share holders press conference. Would you want to invest in a company that was giving away its products and or services and losing money? It might not really be a loss but if they stopped all piracy right now maybe 10,000 people would sub, maybe 100,000. They want the share holders to believe that they can increase profits. How many true testers have a valid sub? I know I do. So if the game ended today how many people would really sub? Thats a risky gamble.

My sub provider is d**h. because I have a guilty councese.:cool:
Take away our porn and Im going to charlie.:grr:
Like i really watch it I married to a freak in bed.

Who wants PICS.

must be over 21 to receive these explict pics

My sub provider is d**h. because I have a guilty councese.:cool:
Take away our porn and Im going to charlie.:grr:
Like i really watch it I married to a freak in bed.

Who wants PICS.

must be over 21 to receive these explict pics

h*ll i`ll throw out my porn too if your wife has a sister thats a freak too...lol

This baloney surfaces each and every time a card swap or rumors of a swap surface. Anyone that has been in this hobby for a while knows that a hack to any service will only surface when it is needed. There is no "public hack" for DTV because of 2 reasons. #1 - it is not needed (as long as the other providers are compromised) and #2 - the extortion letters that Dave sent out accomplished exactly what they set out to do. Scare everyone from doing anything publicly with DTV.
We all were told the same bull when the switch from Nagra1 to Nagra2 was about to happen and we all know how that came out (we're all watching tv aren't we?) So whatever is happening or about to happen is beyond our control for the moment so why speculate. Enjoy what you have now and don't worry about what's going to happen 9 months or a year from now. It will work out, thanks to the brilliant coders and crackers on "our side", it always does.

...So whatever is happening or about to happen is beyond our control for the moment so why speculate. Enjoy what you have now and don't worry about what's going to happen 9 months or a year from now...

I guess you are right, it's beyond of control. But still, investing in expensive HD stuff probably can wait for a better times.

You have to look DTV Took down some big names in the hacking community.Merdock had to work for dtv or spend time in jail and he was a big player in the hacks..Dish will do the same slowly and surely..They will scare the shit out of the average tester and take the forums down 1 by 1 and before you know it it all will be gone..

If I'm correct after February !9, 2009 commercial analog will be gone.
More subs for dave and charles and cable and hd receivers and antenna.

I hastily bought two 301-010 receivers with S02 (SW- 04) cards.
Those are the son of dave P4 cards!:o
Only plus is no balance on the boxes, add credit card # after package choice
and watch tv.:yes:

Anybody got a magic c.c. number?:lol: